We, as an ally, tested the new Frontlines feature a bit on Saturday. The following feedback is based on my experience during the Ally RvR evening. First, I want to say that you did a very good job. Once you get the hang of it, the system is very logical and consistent. It’s clear that you’ve put a lot of work into it. We all found the new system to be very well-designed. However, we noticed a few things that could perhaps be improved. Additionally, I’ve brought along a comprehensive proposal for a meaningful expansion of the current system, which could solve some current problems with the existing system.
The improvement suggestions are always structured the same way. First, I describe the "problem" I observed. After that, there’s a suggestion for improvement. Please discuss the pros and cons of these suggestions civilly so that the eden team can achieve the best possible outcome.
Improvement Suggestions
1. The system currently requires a lot of "Trial and Error"
We spent the evening trying out a lot of things. The reason was that there currently isn’t a proper description of the system. According to announcements, something is supposed to come, but what if Season 3 is already further along? For example, it only clicked for me when I understood when and where to send Siege Golems to which tower.
We saw a Bomb Pig once that evening. Many people gathered around it to check it out. Unfortunately, it didn’t move. It just stood there. Why, we didn’t know. We hadn’t summoned it.
In general, I found the information on this topic quite sparse. Furthermore, the various Supply Vaults were quite confusing, and each Vault (tower by tower, etc.) seems to stand alone. Players are forgetful. And with this complex system (Frontlines), we should also carefully consider how we can "explain" the system to the players at any time.
Possible Improvements
- We should create a dedicated read-only channel on Discord, similar to other topics. Announcements and all information about the Frontlines system should be organized and formatted there, so we have a good overview of everything the system offers and how it works.
- There should be a series of YouTube tutorials on all features, and they should also be linked in the aforementioned Discord channel.
- There should be an in-game tutorial quest that explains the basics. Particularly the placement of the Forward Camp and where to purchase it. We now have so many extra NPCs in the Frontiers village that I’ve often found myself wondering: what is this NPC for?
- Expansion of the information when talking to a Supplier. The current text still describes too little of the system, including what the upgrades and gimmicks do.
When I first stood at a tower and saw all the Supply Pools, I was quite confused. The Forward Camp had fewer pools (Alliance and Guild were missing). There was also no clear explanation anywhere on how the pools work.
Are the pools limited? What happens to the supplies if you don’t collect them, for example, from the Alliance Pool? Is it possible, for instance, to hoard supplies in the Alliance or Guild Pool? How does the Stash work? What is the consumption rate of the Corpse Summoner?
All these questions were not answered directly by the game. This made the system feel quite "clunky," and you had to ask around a lot. Fortunately, I have many well-informed Ally members who were able to explain everything to me.
Possible Improvements
Basically, I think the idea of the pools is not bad. However, I advocate for significantly simplifying the system. Especially the "hoarding" of supplies can be abused. And the more complex a system is, the harder it is to balance.
My proposal includes having only one pool, which would be the "Stash" for the respective object (tower or keep). All other pools should be removed. This way, there are only the supplies in the active players or in the "Stashes" of the objects.
- Supply Pool: Rename the "Stash" to "Supply Pool."
- Supplies of Players: Each player can carry a maximum of 20 supplies and transfer them to the "Supply Pool" of the respective object. A group of 8 players fully stocked with supplies can thus contribute a maximum of 160 supplies. (Small side note: All of my following suggestions are based on the new supply quantities. These amounts can still be adjusted.)
- Supply Pool and Rewards: The "Supply Pool" for towers is limited to 40. The "Supply Pool" for keeps is limited to 200. Each member of the realm can fill the "Supply Pool." When depositing a supply into a "Supply Pool", players receive 20 RP. This means a maximum of 400 RP per player for depositing 20 supplies.
- Upgrades with Supplies: Supplies can be used to upgrade keeps or towers. Upgrades can only be initiated by the guild that has claimed the object.
- Plundering Supply Pools: If a tower or keep is raided, the "Supply Pool" can be looted by the enemy. Each player can loot one supply from the pool. Supplies that are not looted are removed after one minute.
- Adjustment of Supply Amounts: The rewards for obtaining supplies should be adjusted so that it is possible for an 8-player group to collect 20 supplies per player with about half an hour of effort. This benchmark is important for my upcoming suggestions.
Several times during the evening, we encountered towers that were deep purple. We thought, “Wow, this one leveled up to Level 10 really fast.” Quickly, the rumor spread that a tower becomes Level 10 as soon as it gets the new "Roof Upgrade."
We took the time during the evening to claim a tower and fully upgrade it. First of all, kudos to you! The system is cool. After the Roof Update, it also appeared as if our tower had immediately reached Level 10. However, over time, we noticed that the tower continued to level normally.
This means that, from the outside, the tower looks like a Level 10 tower, but in reality, it is not. This caused a lot of confusion. The idea of the Roof Upgrade is really cool, as are its benefits. However, it is currently quite confusing.
This led me to create a comprehensive "Upgrade System" that is more consistent. It also allows for the reuse of the old "levels" for towers and keeps. From the outside, you would again be able to see how strong a tower or keep is.
The following improvements also build upon the changes to the "Supply Pool" described earlier.
Possible Improvements
We also find the idea of upgrades really cool. However, there are still some rough edges. In particular, I feel the system lacks consistency. To fix this, I propose a comprehensive upgrade system that also makes players and guilds more responsible for "maintaining" their frontier.
In return, we gain cool upgrades as benefits. These upgrades, however, also come with costs in terms of Bounty Points or Supplies. After all, war is expensive.
Increase Claim Limit to 4: Before diving into the details: Each guild should be able to claim up to four objects in the future. The reason is that the proposed upgrade concept will require a lot of attention from each guild. Especially toward the end of a season, participation in RvR tends to decrease.
The proposed upgrade system would require active participation to maintain and complete the upgrades. Increasing the claim limit to four ensures that frontiers remain vibrant even with fewer active guilds.
Overhaul of the Upgrade System (Towers/Keeps) and Supplies
Let’s get into the details! I believe upgrading keeps and towers should be a task for the entire realm and require effort. Highly upgraded keeps and towers should demand constant attention from the realm and its guilds in the form of Bounty Points or Supplies to maintain them.
Fallback to Supplies: The proposed upgrade system can become expensive. Therefore, I suggest a fallback if a guild's Bounty Points run out. If the claiming guild does not have enough Bounty Points, Supplies will be taken from the "Supply Pool" to cover the costs for all upgrades and the claim. For every 10 Bounty Points required per hour, 1 Supply will be removed from the "Supply Pool" once the guild's Bounty Point pool is depleted. Remember the 1/10 ratio for later.
Bounty Point Pool and Supplies Exhausted: If the cost of the upgrades can no longer be paid, the tower or keep loses all upgrades.The cost tick occurs every hour. If the base cost for the "claim" cannot be paid in the following hour, the guild also loses the "claim" of the object.
Towers Should Only Be Upgradeable Manually: Towers (and Keeps) should only be upgradeable manually. This means there should no longer be automatic upgrades after X minutes.
- A maximum upgrade of the tower costs 129 supplies + 2-4 supplies for a siege weapon.
- This means that a group of 8 with full supplies (160) can fully upgrade a tower.
- Upgrades can be leveled in parallel, depending on the type (gates, base level, etc.).
- The base cost of a tower (without upgrades) is 10 bounty points per hour.
- Each tower costs bounty points every 60 minutes based on the upgrades applied.
- Each upgrade costs additional bounty points per hour.
- A fully upgraded tower costs 200 bounty points (4800 bounty points per day) or 20 supplies every 60 minutes.
- Tower Levels 2-9
- Each level represents the classic automatic levels with their colors (blue, gold, orange, red, purple) and their visual changes and enhancements as we know them (thicker gates, etc.).
- Upgrade Info:
- 5% Siege Resistance (Level 9 = 45%)
- Upgrade Cost -> Supply * Level (e.g., Level 5 = 5 Supplies)
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 10 BP per level (Level 9 Tower = 80 BP)
- Fortified Gate Levels 1-10
- Upgrade Info:
- Level 1 is immune to melee/casts and can only be attacked by siege.
- 5% Siege Resistance per level (Level 10 = 50%)
- Level is capped at the tower level.
- Upgrade Cost -> Supply * Level (e.g., Level 5 = 5 Supplies)
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 5 BP per level (Level 10 Gate = 50 BP)
- Upgrade Info:
- Fortified Roof Tower Upgrade
- This upgrade represents the classic automatic Level 10 with its color (purple) and visual change (roof) and enhancements as we know them (thicker gates, etc.).
- Upgrade Info:
- Available only from Level 9 Tower
- Protection against siege damage + ruptures (like the current Fortify upgrade)
- 5% Siege Resistance (max now 50%)
- Upgrade Cost -> 10 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 10 BP
- Siege Weapons
- Siege weapons from the tower are stronger than normal siege weapons:
- Trebuchet (anti-wall/gate)
- Ballista (anti-siege)
- Catapult (AoE)
- Upgrade available from Level 1
- Upgrade Costs:
- Trebuchet -> 4 Supplies
- Ballista -> 2 Supplies
- Catapult -> 3 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> Instant
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 20 BP
- Siege weapons from the tower are stronger than normal siege weapons:
- Teleporter
- As already existing
- Upgrade Cost -> 10 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> Instant
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 10 BP
- Corpse Summoner
- As already existing
- Upgrade Cost -> 10 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> Instant
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 10 BP
- A maximum upgrade of a keep costs 1465 supplies + 20-40 supplies for a siege weapon.
- This means you need approximately 10 groups of 8 with full supplies (160) to fully upgrade a keep.
- Upgrades can be leveled in parallel, depending on the type (gates, base level, guards, etc.).
- The base cost of a keep (without upgrades) is 100 BP per hour.
- Each keep incurs BP costs every 60 minutes based on the upgrades applied.
- Each upgrade costs additional bounty points per hour.
- A fully upgraded keep costs 2000 BP (48,000 BP per day) or 200 supplies every 60 minutes.
- Keep Levels 2-9
- Each level represents the classic automatic levels with their colors (blue, gold, orange, red, purple) and their visual changes and enhancements as we know them (thicker gates, etc.).
- Upgrade Info:
- 5% Siege Resistance (Level 9 = 45%)
- Upgrade Cost -> 10 x Supply * Level (e.g., Level 5 = 50 Supplies)
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 100 BP per level (Level 9 Keep = 800 BP)
- Fortified Gates Levels 1-10
- Upgrade Info:
- Level 1 is immune to melee/casts and can only be attacked by siege.
- 5% Siege Resistance per level (Level 10 = 50%)
- Level is capped at the keep level.
- Upgrade Cost -> 10 x Supply * Level (e.g., Level 5 = 50 Supplies)
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 50 BP per level (Level 10 Gates = 500 BP)
- Upgrade Info:
- Fortified Roof Upgrade
- This upgrade represents the classic automatic Level 10 with its color (purple) and visual change (roof) and enhancements as we know them (thicker gates, etc.).
- Upgrade Info:
- Available only from Level 9 Keep
- Protection against siege damage + ruptures (like the current Fortify upgrade)
- 5% Siege Resistance (max now 50%)
- Cost -> 100 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 100 BP
- Fortified Guards Levels 1-10
- Upgrade Info:
- Affects guards and the keep lord.
- 5% more damage + HP + melee/magic resistance per level (at max level, the guards and lord receive an additional +50% damage, +50% HP, and +50% resistance against melee/magic, in addition to their already increased level from the keep upgrade).
- Upgrade Cost -> 5 x Supply * Level (e.g., Level 5 = 25 Supplies)
- Time per Upgrade -> 5 minutes
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 40 BP per level (Level 9 Keep = 400 BP)
- Upgrade Info:
- Siege Weapons
- Siege weapons from the keep are stronger than normal and even stronger than those from towers:
- Trebuchet (anti-wall/gate)
- Ballista (anti-siege)
- Catapult (AoE)
- Upgrade available from Level 1
- 5 siege weapon slots per keep:
- 1 main keep + 4 corner towers
- Upgrade Costs:
- Trebuchet -> 8 Supplies
- Ballista -> 4 Supplies
- Catapult -> 6 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> Instant
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 10 BP per weapon (total for all weapons = 50 BP)
- Siege weapons from the keep are stronger than normal and even stronger than those from towers:
- Corpse Summoner
- As already existing
- Upgrade Cost -> 100 Supplies
- Time per Upgrade -> Instant
- BP Cost per 60 Minutes: 10 BP
The following two pieces of feedback are not directly related to the new system, but I’d like to offer two improvement suggestions that could enhance the overall experience — specifically regarding our beloved siege towers. I have been bothered since Season 2 that siege towers break too quickly when the opponent knows how to destroy them. Sometimes, just one smart player is enough to halt an entire raid. I don’t necessarily think that’s bad, but the balancing should be adjusted.
Possible Improvements
What do I want to achieve with the improvements to the siege tower? On one hand, I want to highlight the scout class more in these situations. The siege arrow could be an adequate means against siege equipment. However, it should not be so easy to destroy a siege tower. Especially with the upgrades to keeps and the corpse summoner, sallies will become more likely. With the changes to the siege tower, it becomes a contested asset. If defenders can push attackers away from the siege tower, it collapses. Likewise, scouts can destroy the siege tower with the siege arrow through targeted actions behind enemy lines. On the other hand, it should no longer be possible for casters to destroy the siege tower simply by casting from a window or for some hidden defender to repair the walls. Once the siege tower is built, it must be protected; otherwise, the enemy will destroy it or it will collapse.
I would adjust the following things about the siege tower:
- The siege tower cannot be nuked (immune to magic).
- The siege tower can be attacked by melee or scout abilities (siege arrow).
- The siege arrow from scouts deals extra damage to the siege tower.
- The siege tower slowly deteriorates when no builder is present (it loses 5% health every 30 seconds).
- Counter-repairing the wall is no longer possible while the siege tower is being constructed.
- Once the siege tower is constructed, it receives a health bar and can take damage (from melee or scouts).
- Once the siege tower is built, a builder must still be present for it to remain intact.
This feedback also focuses more on adjustments rather than new features. Oil, battering rams, trebuchets, catapults, etc., are siege equipment and should not be destroyable by magic. It feels strange to be able to destroy siege equipment with a spell.
Possible Improvements
Similar to the siege tower, I see melee players, especially scouts with the siege arrow, as a good addition for any zerg. They can destroy siege equipment, which would make scouts more significant. Granting RP for destroying siege equipment would also motivate players to take action. Since only melee players or scouts can do this, the destruction is intended exclusively for those player groups. If no scout is present, siege equipment can still be destroyed traditionally with a ballista.
I would adjust the following things about siege equipment:
- Siege equipment cannot be nuked (immune to magic).
- Siege equipment can be attacked by melee or scout abilities (siege arrow).
- The siege arrow from scouts deals extra damage to siege equipment.
- Destroying siege equipment grants RP (100 RP for destruction).
Overall, I find the Season 3 update really successful. With a few changes, Season 3 could become the best DAoC experience ever. Especially if we make the RvR experience more logical and easier to understand, it can improve the experience for everyone. We should also strive to remain creative (see scout improvements) to offer players who may not have much to do in large keep battles opportunities to actively participate. Finally, I want to thank the eden team again for their brilliant work. Keep it up!


