Last try: balance please

[Fin / Valar]

I swear it's my last try asking for some balance in this server:

herald?n=top_players


Does it seem to you all that having 17 hibs in the first 22 positions in the herald should mean something about the complete unbalance that we have in this server, or not?
Shall we wait for everyone to switch to Hib before doing something about it?

It really makes me wonder.....

[Idi]

I swear it's my last try asking for some balance in this server:

You don't want "balance", you want favoritism.

The alb and mid bg's have been working together on this server to focus on hib, while largely ignoring each other, and that's what is reflected in the RP totals you cite.

Let's do the math.

100 hibs
100 mids
100 albs

If mids and albs focused on hibs alone, like they have been since launch, that means the maximum enemy players they can get rp's from is 100, and if mids and albs get an equal share with each other, than the maximum enemy player rp's available falls to only 50 for each realm.

Meanwhile, mids and albs are giving hibs RP access to up to 200 enemy players, which is two to four times the amount of possible RP's compared to both mid and alb.

So the fact mids and albs chose to make the hib frontier a dumpster fire every day while largely ignoring each other in the process, had unintended consequences in the form of fewer available RP's, and that is directly reflected in the RP list on the herald.

Congratulations. You played yourselves.

[Fin / Valar]

Leaving the math alone (since yours does not make any sense lol) imagine that in well-balanced server Mids and Albs don't have to cooperate to deal with Hib Bg.... wouldn't it be wonderful for you too?

[Hylor]

I swear it's my last try asking for some balance in this server:

You don't want "balance", you want favoritism.

The alb and mid bg's have been working together on this server to focus on hib, while largely ignoring each other, and that's what is reflected in the RP totals you cite.

Let's do the math.

100 hibs
100 mids
100 albs

If mids and albs focused on hibs alone, like they have been since launch, that means the maximum enemy players they can get rp's from is 100, and if mids and albs get an equal share with each other, than the maximum enemy player rp's available falls to only 50 for each realm.

Meanwhile, mids and albs are giving hibs RP access to up to 200 enemy players, which is two to four times the amount of possible RP's compared to both mid and alb.

So the fact mids and albs chose to make the hib frontier a dumpster fire every day while largely ignoring each other in the process, had unintended consequences in the form of fewer available RP's, and that is directly reflected in the RP list on the herald.

Congratulations. You played yourselves.

This is not true. One of the Alb BG leaders decided not to take the hib power relic even though no one was guarding it and instead went to jam he mid bg taking hib strength relic. It lead to a 1 hour siege where albs eventually wiped anyways and hibs took back all but one keep in their frontier. Literally one of the dumbest moves I have seen a 100+ person BG ever do in DAoC. Also, I have watched Albs get 2-3 relics and during NA primetime lose all of them without ever having an Alb BG even formed to put up a fight. Literally, EU Albs are basically the only Albs that put up a serious fight. Hibs have the numbers, slightly more OP classes (not huge but certainly a bit of an issue) and better BG leaders both in skill and time when played. Much of that is not in control of the devs but class balance is.

P.S. Not arguing for the OPs point. Just adding my own thought to your remarks.

[[UHHH] Jubbin]

Casters in general are stronger than they should be in regards to what pure Melee classes have.. in RAs that is. Full melee can't do anything due to not having the tricks of higher RR, like getting purge 2 at least, then max out det to even stand a chance (This is good players vs good players) You simply lack by comparison. They don't need xyz outside their ToA bonuses to let them hit hard, they cast at 1.5 seconds per nuke or spell. 300-/+ damage per nuke before any debuffs- ranged stuns and mezzes which they also get bonuses to from ToA stats, They are just more powerful than any pure melee classes.. if we're going to talk about balance issues, I believe most of that comes from the RR cap.. sure in turn when a caster is higher RR they too get more tricks, but mainly shortened durations on things they already have at lower RR so it just makes them even stronger per RR.. Pure melees have to be higher RR to even stand a chance let alone do anything without being CC'ed to death.

I want to see Pure melees such as Warriors, Heros, Armsmen capable of functioning vs that type of synergy (casters). I see all the time people complain about xyz, but nobody says anything about the pure melee toons that are simply gimp by comparison even regarding RR when you tie that in. I'm tired of seeing server after server make DAoC all caster synergy as the meta.. You see it all the time, outside of speed classes, you can have a full caster group with 1 or NO melee in it and they do wonders.. I've seen full pain trains on mid that get steam rolled if they don't have charge or purge 2 and at least some det.. even so, they are naturally gimp still due to not getting enough umph. specially at lower RR. in order to be used to your full potential vs casters as a pure melee, you absolutely need det 9 and purge 2 minimum, or you're going to be sitting for minutes after minutes.. Mez, stun, root... outside of the stun if it's casted, you're sitting for the whole fight without det 9 and at least a purge to keep on your target.

[Idi]

Casters in general are stronger than they should be in regards to what pure Melee classes have..

This game has always treated melee classes as garbage, and this server is not different.

Full melee can't do anything due to not having the tricks of higher RR, like getting purge 2 at least, then max out det to even stand a chance

The heavy tank starter pack is purge II, IP II, and max determination, which means RR 7 on this server. That means that a heavy tank has to be RR7 JUST to get to the fight. This explains why there are so few players rolling heavy tanks.

Heavy tanks have NOTHING to spec for except offense and defense, and yet skalds, infs, mins, friars, and any number of classes can completley own heavy tanks and bypass their defense because (reasons).

In short, heavy tanks on this server are hot garbage compared to casters and supp0ort tunes, so role anything beside a heavy tank while the server lasts.

[Fin / Valar]

This was a known issue since the beginning, we all knew what would happen and the staff decided to go toward this direction. Now check what we have in the first 10 postion of players Herald:

- Mentalist
- Eldritch
- Animist
- Mentalist
- Enchanter
- Thane
- Mentalist
- Eldritch
- Bard
- Eldritch

Now, what's the meaning of giving Ichor to Eldritch? Why pick up a custom change from a different patch level and blindly apply it here, where we have 3 Eldritch in the first 10 position regarding RPs? No sense at all.

This is gonna be again a cast-a-lot server, because of endless sprinting for everyone (very very bad decision, it totally kills the Mid melee train and any other realm that wants to try a melee setup), because of too much damage for certain classes (above all, obviously, the Hib caster train with baseline stuns, but also Theurg's pets or charmed caster mobs damage), because of custom decisions about RAs (while savages are still waiting to get something to make them worth playing), because of absurd templates that need endless raids to temp something different than a caster with only 3 stats to cap.

I see a lot of custom changes that clearly lean toward a caster-friendly server, so the logical consequence is that we currently have zergs everywhere, caster based smalls (because of the damage outburst), and no balance at all because, and I hope this is a fact for everyone here, Midgard clearly lacks of good casters while Albion and Hibs have plenty of them.

But again if I try to ask for some balance moves by the staff all I get are Hibs whining (and I really cannot understand why since they had almost all the custom changes) or staff accusing me of "Abuse"

Anyone can stand by my opinion and anyone else can stand against it, but please have a look at the Herald: numbers do not lie. Look at the classes and realms in the first positions, check the gap between the first 2 guilds (clearly Hibs) and the rest, try to count how many melee chars are in the first 50 positions... how cannot they see that there is such imbalance here, I really cannot understand....

[rgarrett]

i like being mezed on my warrior and standing there for 2m while i go outside to smoke a joint tho

[[UHHH] Jubbin]

Casters in general are stronger than they should be in regards to what pure Melee classes have..

This game has always treated melee classes as garbage, and this server is not different.

Full melee can't do anything due to not having the tricks of higher RR, like getting purge 2 at least, then max out det to even stand a chance

The heavy tank starter pack is purge II, IP II, and max determination, which means RR 7 on this server. That means that a heavy tank has to be RR7 JUST to get to the fight. This explains why there are so few players rolling heavy tanks.

Heavy tanks have NOTHING to spec for except offense and defense, and yet skalds, infs, mins, friars, and any number of classes can completley own heavy tanks and bypass their defense because (reasons).

In short, heavy tanks on this server are hot garbage compared to casters and supp0ort tunes, so role anything beside a heavy tank while the server lasts.

agreed sadly... The cap on RR, while I don't mind it on paper to hold sweat necks from being rr9 already, actually gimps the full melee in general.. Hell lately on DAoC every server I've played had pure melees gimp by comparison to where to just use them to peel targets now.. they've gimped them to literally just being a peel bot in those synergy groups, then it's "Who can peel easiest/best"

It sucks because Melee is so fun. To give a example, I made a Hero initially, and my 2h hits on a fully temped (close to fully) caster would deal roughly 300-400 damage on a 6.0 speed weapon... meanwhile I'm fully temped on the hero, but that caster can turn around and CC me, and stun/nuke me down at 300+ a nuke at 1.5 seconds per cast at range without their own debuff spells effecting me otherwise it's close to- if not 400. It's just odd to me.. They can usually stun/root if they are solo, if not they can snare nuke and just kite with ease.. Like, when a full tank is snared in a group fight it's embarassing without det9 and purge 2 and without IP2+ you're going to be low life anyways where due to low life- you're snared lolol.. Rough out here as a full melee... cause even if we manage to fight a sneak/assassin class/SB/Inf/NS- their poisons turn you into a level 30 character.. Wepskill poison, con poisons of over 100+ on stats- then tie in ToA debuff bonuses and you're now level 30 fighting a lvl 50 in melee combat while they swing at cap and you're gimp yet again. I just feel like I can't do much as a full tank. unless I'm high RR, which is capped :/

[[UHHH] Jubbin]

This was a known issue since the beginning, we all knew what would happen and the staff decided to go toward this direction. Now check what we have in the first 10 postion of players Herald:

- Mentalist
- Eldritch
- Animist
- Mentalist
- Enchanter
- Thane
- Mentalist
- Eldritch
- Bard
- Eldritch

Now, what's the meaning of giving Ichor to Eldritch? Why pick up a custom change from a different patch level and blindly apply it here, where we have 3 Eldritch in the first 10 position regarding RPs? No sense at all.

This is gonna be again a cast-a-lot server, because of endless sprinting for everyone (very very bad decision, it totally kills the Mid melee train and any other realm that wants to try a melee setup), because of too much damage for certain classes (above all, obviously, the Hib caster train with baseline stuns, but also Theurg's pets or charmed caster mobs damage), because of custom decisions about RAs (while savages are still waiting to get something to make them worth playing), because of absurd templates that need endless raids to temp something different than a caster with only 3 stats to cap.

I see a lot of custom changes that clearly lean toward a caster-friendly server, so the logical consequence is that we currently have zergs everywhere, caster based smalls (because of the damage outburst), and no balance at all because, and I hope this is a fact for everyone here, Midgard clearly lacks of good casters while Albion and Hibs have plenty of them.

But again if I try to ask for some balance moves by the staff all I get are Hibs whining (and I really cannot understand why since they had almost all the custom changes) or staff accusing me of "Abuse"

Anyone can stand by my opinion and anyone else can stand against it, but please have a look at the Herald: numbers do not lie. Look at the classes and realms in the first positions, check the gap between the first 2 guilds (clearly Hibs) and the rest, try to count how many melee chars are in the first 50 positions... how cannot they see that there is such imbalance here, I really cannot understand....

Hey man, Hib here XD I agree honestly :/