Why Doublefrost is only 0.75 Growth Rate ?

[Urukai]

Hi

Is there a reason why the anytime style (lvl34) from Leftaxe in Midgard is:
- 0.75 Growth rate.
- Cost medium endurance.

Meanwhile in ALB it is 0.99 and Hib 0.96. (dualwield and celtic dual)

And Hib/Alb endurance cost is also low.


That is well over 30% bonus style damage and Double the endurance cost.

Why ?

[Revnant]

Also wondering this. Need to use base weapon anytime for a ~0.15 boost, however, most people would rather keep their weapon at level than pump it leading to a damage fall compared to other realms dual wielding.

[xthx1138x0628]

Hi, I am an old school DAOC player, from launch
I attended the round tables in Las Vegas back in the day, and Devs I spoke to said the reason why it’s 75% was that LA always swings and therefore has overall higher DPS over a long fight because it hits more often, as opposed to Albion and Hibs where dual wield only has at best a 50% chance to swing, the problem is when it swings it hits, as opposed to Midgard swings everytime but doesn’t always hit

[syllex]

Thats not correct

DoubleFrost did 0.75 GR while the rest of the ~34 Anytimes only had 0.6 GR's, so it was intended to be slightly higher (Same for Garrotte being 0.75, it was always intended to be the best Anytime in the game)

Im not sure if its an Eden thing that all of the ~34 Anytimes were bumped to 0.9, or if thats a Live Patch thing.
Were DF and Garrote just ignored on one? both? I dont know as I don't have a Live account and cannot test.

If we were concerned for balance, either reduce the 34 styles from 0.9 to 0.6 across the board, and the DW/CD 34's to 0.75 or bump the forgotten anytimes up to compete (1.00... oh and AH would need a bump too probably).

[sylvynyr]

IIRC, LA and CD/DW may be different mechanics, but they essentially average the same DPS (damage over time).

https://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanic ... anics.html

due to the design of both Left Axe and Celtic Dual/Dual Wield, users of either of the types of dual wield will have the same damage output over time as long as they have equivalent specialization in their dual wield type � this conclusion is only accurate independent of any damage-add style effects, however, under which LA will gain more damage over time than CD/DW.

Styled Conclusions:

The most important conclusion that can be drawn from the above data is that, given styles with the same Growth Rates, and assuming all weapons always hit, Left Axe, Celtic Dual, and Dual Wield perform identically when wielding the same speed weapons.

The second most important conclusion is that, when set up to take advantage of the artificial haste created by the dual wield effect, LA DPS actually ends up outdamaging CD/DW.� This means that, when wielding a slow weapon mainhand and a fast weapon offhand and using melee styles, LA is superior to CD/DW even if the Growth Rates on their styles are exactly the same.

Please note that the amount that LA will vary from CD/DW when hasted varies completely depending on the situation.� In typical RvR situations with typical RvR weapons this amount will be incredibly small.� The above examples only compare one small scenario.

[clyd3_03]

who is pete waterman tho? he seems to have a phd in daoc mechanics? lol

[tresadlc]

who is pete waterman tho? he seems to have a phd in daoc mechanics? lol

lol

[Xmo]

Yes, please check cause it feels horrrrriibbbblleeee to use sword style instead !!! Makes no sense !!

[christnthms4394]

I might be able to help.
LA's mechanics aren't quite as simple as "it swings on every round." There's a little more in there, and optimizing it might give the answer to the original question.

In a round where both weapons swing, the delay is the average of the two weapon speeds. This is true for all three realms, but the reliability of the LA swings means we can use it to our advantage.

The style bonus damage is normalized against the swing speed of the weapon. The at swing speed includes the modifiers from QUI and any haste buffs. That's why when hasted you'll see your actual damage per swing go down, even though your dps goes up.

One thing that damage bonus isn't normalized for is the effect on swing speed from swinging both weapons. Taken to the extreme, it's a big deal. If you could get a 4.4 in your main hand and a 2.6 in your offhand, you'd be swinging as if you had a 3.5 in each hand but the style bonus damage is still being calculated solely on the 4.4 main hand weapon.

Now, there is a diminishing return here as modern templates can hit the swing speed cap with even very slow weapons. So this would be most relevant where celerity and perfect templates aren't accounted for. But where optimized for, this yields an effective style bonus between 15% and 30% better than its listed value.

[sicom]

Do LA skills scale differently than primary weapon skills? i.e. is Doublefrost (.75 growth) more damage than Havoc (.90 growth)?