AHK was bad enough, recorder just made it worse, not better/more fair.

[Tarvanis]

Pretty much every stealther/dualwielder you see now just sprints and runs through while landing every single style without issue or in some cases even facing the right direction for it, case and point side stuns while being infront of you.

Obviously you can't "Nerf" AHK or Recorder, I think it's time Stealthers and Dualwielders got the nerf bat though.

[shieldladaoc]

This is not a AHK or Recorder issue.

This is a problem with grossly over-generous hit boxes on side styles which Mythic added to the game a long time ago. You can side style from the front perfectly fine without AHK / Recorder just using qbind. The style arcs need brought back to how they were at the game release for this problem to go away.

There are also some effective melee counters for people who try to aggressively side style 1v1, but they don't make things look any less glitchy/stupid as much as they do prevent you from dying.

[Xaan]

Just remove it completely imo.....fkn bs have to use some external program to play for you.

[penteles]

Just remove it completely imo.....fkn bs have to use some external program to play for you.

Its not an external program (recorder) and it is not playing for you. Recorder macros mostly just save quickbar space.

Only mildly cheesy thing so far ive found with recorder is that you can twist all skald chants with single keypress (but thats mostly flaw in game design, since they are instant without universal cooldown)

[maliya1_44368]

Just remove it completely imo.....fkn bs have to use some external program to play for you.

Its not an external program (recorder) and it is not playing for you. Recorder macros mostly just save quickbar space.

Only mildly cheesy thing so far ive found with recorder is that you can twist all skald chants with single keypress (but thats mostly flaw in game design, since they are instant without universal cooldown)

Hi,magic 8 ball online
Using recorder macros to streamline gameplay is understandable, especially when it comes to managing quickbar space efficiently. However, relying on them to twist all skald chants with a single keypress reveals a potential flaw in the game design, as it undermines the intended mechanics and balance. While convenient, it may detract from the intended gameplay experience by trivializing a significant aspect of the game's strategy and resource management.

[maliya1_44368]

Hi Guys,
How can we address the shortcomings of AHK and recorder tools to ensure fairness and effectiveness in their application?

[Tarvanis]

This is not a AHK or Recorder issue.

This is a problem with grossly over-generous hit boxes on side styles which Mythic added to the game a long time ago. You can side style from the front perfectly fine without AHK / Recorder just using qbind. The style arcs need brought back to how they were at the game release for this problem to go away.

There are also some effective melee counters for people who try to aggressively side style 1v1, but they don't make things look any less glitchy/stupid as much as they do prevent you from dying.

Where I do agree, it's also an AHK/Recorder issue as it trivializes the speed at which they can queue up XYZ styles/combos, further allowing them to focus more on rapid movement to abuse such hitboxes.

It's an issue of both. If hit boxes were fixed and AHK/Recorder disappeared (hypothetically), all of the top sneaks and dual wielders you see would nose dive in terms of raw skill because they're so reliant on the use of AHK/Recorder combined with hitbox abuse.

It was actually more fun when only AHK was a thing, now the masses have access to it? every tom, dick and harry is using it, which did arguably level the playing field for AHK Vs Recorder - but it also diminished the overall sanctity of the game as far as PvP goes.

on reflection, I think the Eden staff should do two things

#1 Experiment on making hit boxes smaller for side styles, to the point where if you are not at someones side directly, you aren't getting that sidestyle off no matter how much you press your magic macros and dance around to exploit side arcs

#2 Consider not only removing Recorder completely for melee styles but, add some sort of detection which can detect people using AHK (shouldn't be that hard, all key inputs will be exactly the same when chained together, it's how people catch auto crafters on live games, you can clearly see the delay between inputs... even if they add variance you can still make an educated guess if its being automated)

[Xaan]

Hi Guys,
How can we address the shortcomings of AHK and recorder tools to ensure fairness and effectiveness in their application?

Get rid of the BS. 20 fkn years and never needed this bs to play. This younger generation are a bnch of lazy fks. Cant even run to dungeons anymore. Have to rely on someone else to port them around. A true representation of our society today....a bunch of lazy ass no good for nothing people just want the easy way, or something handed to them.

[shieldladaoc]

Older generation is benefiting a lot from AHK. It reduces the amount of keystrokes and clicks by magnitudes which allows for longer and more comfortable play sessions. There's less need to follow the tiny mouse cursor around the screen, and more time to actually focus on what's going on around you.

We shouldn't all go back to clicking buttons on hotbars. I played the game this way back in 2001-2006 and TBH the automation added from AHK makes the game better now in my opinion when it's used without the intention of exploiting dodgy mechanics.

Macroing a style chain isn't doing anything you can't normally do. All this is doing is reducing keystrokes that you would theoretically be mashing over and over again. These macros are actually good in my opinion, and everybody should use them to maximize their character's attack sequences without the need to hit 1000's of extra buttons every night. Seriously do your body and equipment a favor.

There's some bad apples though who tend to use things like AHK with the intent of making it easier to exploit glitchy game mechanics and network latency. These ones are really obvious, look twitchy stupid to fight, and land positional styles from the side and back seemingly front front almost all the time. Somebody actually landing a full parry chain because of AHK is a lot different than somebody running around in circles spazzing into every positional style while being nearly un-attackable.

Where do you draw the line is the hard question to answer. Its sad that there's people out there who just think win win win regardless of the quality of play it makes for their opponents, I guess.

[Mortarion]

This is not a AHK or Recorder issue.

This is a problem with grossly over-generous hit boxes on side styles which Mythic added to the game a long time ago. You can side style from the front perfectly fine without AHK / Recorder just using qbind. The style arcs need brought back to how they were at the game release for this problem to go away.

There are also some effective melee counters for people who try to aggressively side style 1v1, but they don't make things look any less glitchy/stupid as much as they do prevent you from dying.

i have to agree i think this is the best answer in the thread tbh. there will always be a problem with positional abuse because unlike games like say, Warhammer online, daoc doesn't have collision detection. Couple that with lag and there will always be people who can abuse back/side styles. However, the hitbox arc for the styles is a major factor in that abuse and I think you're correct that the best method to address is is to address the hitboxes and see how that plays out. AHK isn't going away and neither is the recorder which, if i'm being honest, is actually AHK+ and is significantly more effective than ahk ever was.