I believe that the Midgard hammer style Thor's Answer is bugged and hitting less often than it should and testing backs this up
According to the charplan and ingame tool tip, both Revenge and it's follow up Thor's Answer have a medum to-hit bonus. I tested in a duel vs a warrior (level 47 and untemplated, but with decent block/parry rates) over 20 mins with the warrior auto-attacking and a 50 Skald attempting Revenge/Thors answer when they parried. The results were
Number of parries: 80
Number of Revenges that hit: 53 (66% of attempts)
Number of Thor's Answers that hit: 20 (38% of attempts)
If they both have the same hit chance then the ratio of revenges that land vs parries, and the ratio of thor's answers to land vs Revenges should be the same but it's not. Its not even a small difference, Revenge penetrates defences nearly twice as often as Thor's Answer.
The combat log shows the same block/parry/evade chance against both styles. (27.73%/19.72%/9.05%)
This can easily be reproduced by duelling a character with high defence (eg shield user) and counting the number of parries and attempted Revenge and Thor's answers.
Follow up style less likely to hit
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
Bump because certain follow up styles are severely bugged and never land. Please look at this...it is crippling for certain classes that rely on these follow up styles.
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
I have issues with the follow-ups and the number of flat-out misses. Land a block reactionary style, it hits is great...The follow-up just whiffs while it has higher to-hit mechanics. Its enough to notice it in RVR.
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
hit chance on styles has nothing to do with the enemy block/parry/evade rates and is fixed at 90% (10% miss chance). depending on the defence bonus and to-hit bonus on the styles you and your enemy are using you will see a change on the miss rates.
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
Found same thing Tarrick did.
see attached
see attached
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
We're not talking about misses
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
Further update. I tested this with a couple of anytime attacks as well. Methodology was to attack with the style and if it hit queue to attack again as soon as the swing timer allowed. If it missed then sheath my weapon and wait a couple of seconds before trying again. This should show the difference between "initial" attacks and "successive" attacks, ie attacks made after a previous successful attack.
Attacker/defender were the same as my initial test, skald vs warrior.
Results are similar to that initial test. Successive attacks have a significantly higher change of being mitigated than initial ones
Is there some kind of "anti-streak" mechanic in the code?
Attacker/defender were the same as my initial test, skald vs warrior.
Results are similar to that initial test. Successive attacks have a significantly higher change of being mitigated than initial ones
Is there some kind of "anti-streak" mechanic in the code?
-
shieldladaoc
- Warrior
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2023 5:05 am
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
This is very interesting. Not a stats/math expert here but curious:
If both attacks have an equal chance of landing against somebody who has 50% parry rate, wouldn't we expect to see the follow up miss more often because the first one hit already and there's a 50% chance its going to get parried? I do get that each attack individually would have an equal chance of landing, but for the passive defense average to be 50% wouldn't the second attack have to deflect more often? Otherwise you would have to see streaks of consecutive parries and hits more consistently?
My follow up 7s stun style from CD lands acceptably well vs everything but Skalds (more on that below). For some reason, it's very rare that I can land the chain on a skald. No idea why it's this one class but I see this over and over and over and over again.
Parry and reactionaries do seem wonky.
I run really high Parry at 59 comp + Parry IV + 6% myth, and TBH i notice a lot of funkiness fighting specifically Skalds who have 10-15% less chance to parry than I do where they just parry literally everything. I'm also running reflex attack 5 too and most of the time I can barely damage them, where they can hit through my parry on most attacks but I can barely counter. I thought it was strange at first until it started happening over and over again.
Other times, for some reason, I can open a fight with the 2nd style in the parry chain (using gaming mouse to execute the chain on one button) without ever landing the first style. It's like having 7s slam basically. I'm not referring to jumping opponent to opponent either, these are cold 1v1 duels that this is happening in. I've also had the same thing happen to me with the midgard hammer line where the 2h hammer attack is an instant stun with no opener.
And then some days too, I can go out farming mobs with 50% parry rate, and the next day those same mobs have a 42% rate. Same buffs, gear and mobs.
Strange stuff indeed.
If both attacks have an equal chance of landing against somebody who has 50% parry rate, wouldn't we expect to see the follow up miss more often because the first one hit already and there's a 50% chance its going to get parried? I do get that each attack individually would have an equal chance of landing, but for the passive defense average to be 50% wouldn't the second attack have to deflect more often? Otherwise you would have to see streaks of consecutive parries and hits more consistently?
My follow up 7s stun style from CD lands acceptably well vs everything but Skalds (more on that below). For some reason, it's very rare that I can land the chain on a skald. No idea why it's this one class but I see this over and over and over and over again.
Parry and reactionaries do seem wonky.
I run really high Parry at 59 comp + Parry IV + 6% myth, and TBH i notice a lot of funkiness fighting specifically Skalds who have 10-15% less chance to parry than I do where they just parry literally everything. I'm also running reflex attack 5 too and most of the time I can barely damage them, where they can hit through my parry on most attacks but I can barely counter. I thought it was strange at first until it started happening over and over again.
Other times, for some reason, I can open a fight with the 2nd style in the parry chain (using gaming mouse to execute the chain on one button) without ever landing the first style. It's like having 7s slam basically. I'm not referring to jumping opponent to opponent either, these are cold 1v1 duels that this is happening in. I've also had the same thing happen to me with the midgard hammer line where the 2h hammer attack is an instant stun with no opener.
And then some days too, I can go out farming mobs with 50% parry rate, and the next day those same mobs have a 42% rate. Same buffs, gear and mobs.
Strange stuff indeed.
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
shieldladaoc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:07 am This is very interesting. Not a stats/math expert here but curious:
If both attacks have an equal chance of landing against somebody who has 50% parry rate, wouldn't we expect to see the follow up miss more often because the first one hit already and there's a 50% chance its going to get parried? I do get that each attack individually would have an equal chance of landing, but for the passive defense average to be 50% wouldn't the second attack have to deflect more often? Otherwise you would have to see streaks of consecutive parries and hits more consistently?
The percentage for the follow up is based off the number of initial swings that actually land. So in the example in my initial post:
Number of parries: 80
Number of Revenges that hit: 53 (66% of attempts)
Number of Thor's Answers that hit: 20 (38% of attempts)
I attempted 80 revenges, 53 landed (66%). After those 53 revenges I attempted Thors answer, 20 landed which is 38% of 53
Yes it is a small sample size but further testing myself and Studboy (above) has done has shown very similar results
Re: Follow up style less likely to hit
Each attack should have its own unique roll of dice vs defenses. So in reality the thors answer style should have pretty much exact same % of success as revenge. This however through further testing was found to be a bug across all consecutive swings. Auto attack or style. All consecutive swings, after a successful attack, have their chance of landing cut almost 25%.shieldladaoc wrote: ↑Tue Jan 30, 2024 3:07 am This is very interesting. Not a stats/math expert here but curious:
If both attacks have an equal chance of landing against somebody who has 50% parry rate, wouldn't we expect to see the follow up miss more often because the first one hit already and there's a 50% chance its going to get parried? I do get that each attack individually would have an equal chance of landing, but for the passive defense average to be 50% wouldn't the second attack have to deflect more often? Otherwise you would have to see streaks of consecutive parries and hits more consistently?
My follow up 7s stun style from CD lands acceptably well vs everything but Skalds (more on that below). For some reason, it's very rare that I can land the chain on a skald. No idea why it's this one class but I see this over and over and over and over again.
Parry and reactionaries do seem wonky.
I run really high Parry at 59 comp + Parry IV + 6% myth, and TBH i notice a lot of funkiness fighting specifically Skalds who have 10-15% less chance to parry than I do where they just parry literally everything. I'm also running reflex attack 5 too and most of the time I can barely damage them, where they can hit through my parry on most attacks but I can barely counter. I thought it was strange at first until it started happening over and over again.
Other times, for some reason, I can open a fight with the 2nd style in the parry chain (using gaming mouse to execute the chain on one button) without ever landing the first style. It's like having 7s slam basically. I'm not referring to jumping opponent to opponent either, these are cold 1v1 duels that this is happening in. I've also had the same thing happen to me with the midgard hammer line where the 2h hammer attack is an instant stun with no opener.
And then some days too, I can go out farming mobs with 50% parry rate, and the next day those same mobs have a 42% rate. Same buffs, gear and mobs.
Strange stuff indeed.