First let me just say that I enjoy playing other classes beside stealth classes in RVR and I have an Enchanter and Warden that I occasionally take out into the chaos. That being said.....
In no way shape or form is it acceptable to discriminate against a class because you feel they have nothing to offer your group. We are all Hibernia players here and we all have the same goal.... to dominate the other two realms.
In fact it is to the benefit of you and your realm mates if you invite stealthers into your groups when in the frontier for mage and healer control and spell/heal interruption. Nightshades are also a benefit as they can scale walls and attack players that are using ramparts for strategic advantages. A Ranger can volley the door or clustered group of enemy players and cause all kinds of havoc and disorganization. YOU NEED THIS TO SUCCESSFULLY ACHIEVE YOUR GOALS.
Which brings me to the next part of this little rant....
If you do not invite stealthers into your groups they can not get healed meaning they die which in turn FEEDS REALM POINTS to your enemy. They also can not assist you and your group in causing chaos with in the enemy ranks.
You need us A lot more than we really need you to be quite honest. We can solo RVR just fine but when we are assisting in a keep or tower siege and you walk near us and get AOEed it knocks us out of stealth and ruins our critshot, volley and PA opportunities.
This really isn't a big deal and sh!t happens but it's when we are not grouped and get diseased or poisoned or take fatal damage that this becomes a problem. We die..... giving your enemy valuable realm points while also taking us off the battlefield for a time giving your enemy casters an healers free reign to stun and mezz and heal the piss out of you.
If none of this seems to make any sense to you then I have a very important question to ask you..... You know who "YOU" are...
SHOW ME ON THIS DOLL WHERE THE STEALTHER HURT YOU.
/RANT
Stealther Hate
Re: Stealther Hate
It's not so much a case of hate, but ties into the gist of what I was getting at n my Constructive Feedback post. Stealth classes across all realms (with the exception of the minstrel) are marginalised as they offer little or nothing to a group dynamic. Why 'gimp' your group having a ns, inf or sb in your group? When you can fill spots with classes that offer more utility? BM, Mercs and Zerkers can all climb walls, have better dps and in the case of the former 2 have access to a 9 sec stun. Why take a ranger, scout or hunter when literally any mage caster has far better dps and much greater utility? Archer casters shot/cast time is far slower than any caster even with 400 dex. They're insanely easy to interrupt, have zero cc. So why bother?
There's no niche for the stealthers in rvr anymore. Assassins are no longer the only ones with climb walls so they lost their niche and point of difference. There was a time rvr bg's had specialist assassin groups 5-6 sb's/infs/ns with heal support for keep attacks. Volley groups etc. Those days are sadly gone and we find stealthers marginalised and relegated to the 'stealth war.'
It would be quite something if the Devs on Eden took the bold step to make the effort incorporate stealthers into the game. They like all classes have or at least once had a respectable place within it. To do so would be simple. Strip climb walls from everyone that isn't an assassin (including the minstrel), and give archers a new skill/shot Grapple Shot (short Range) fires a rope up onto a battlement that will temporarily make a climb point active for all classes... say 5 seconds. Give the archers a point of difference and niche within the overall dynamic of the game.
But this is after all Dark Age of Castalot.
There's no niche for the stealthers in rvr anymore. Assassins are no longer the only ones with climb walls so they lost their niche and point of difference. There was a time rvr bg's had specialist assassin groups 5-6 sb's/infs/ns with heal support for keep attacks. Volley groups etc. Those days are sadly gone and we find stealthers marginalised and relegated to the 'stealth war.'
It would be quite something if the Devs on Eden took the bold step to make the effort incorporate stealthers into the game. They like all classes have or at least once had a respectable place within it. To do so would be simple. Strip climb walls from everyone that isn't an assassin (including the minstrel), and give archers a new skill/shot Grapple Shot (short Range) fires a rope up onto a battlement that will temporarily make a climb point active for all classes... say 5 seconds. Give the archers a point of difference and niche within the overall dynamic of the game.
But this is after all Dark Age of Castalot.
Re: Stealther Hate
I've not seen anyone not group stealthers in the Battlegroups.
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Fin / Valar
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Re: Stealther Hate
They sometimes don't even group BDs unless they have TWF 3 or more lol
BGs here, at least on Midgard, are quite elitist as an 8man
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Ditt unga liv och blod måst gå
Re: Stealther Hate
Well I play Alb, so maybe that's the difference.
Re: Stealther Hate
Well, Eden is not a good place for stealthers, first of all they miss areas where they can go and expect fights with other stealthers without being added by other players, they have to go where the action is, this is mainly keep and tower fights and can try to farm ppl who want to reach the zerg. Also stealth istself is not good setup here, you can detect stealthers as non stealther often easily when no speed is running.
Also there was no real frontier leveling where stealthers can attack other players. Spots like DF, and merchants and Epic steps got bad as the most players are leveled, temped and have their stuff together now. The deserter spots are kinda useless as you get normally more rps when go with zerg and it ´s also more fun to zerg as killing some npc so these spots are also rarely visited by other players and when it ´s often small or full groups that are not a target for stealthers.
So coming back for the oportunities, with the port and private ship system and new frontier designs there is no or less bottlenecks where stealthers can attack ppl, the only solution is to apply zerg and stealthers beside minstrels have not much to offer for groups for that kind of play, that ´s not an Eden problem but a normal daoc design choice.
That being said ppl can´t be blamed imho when they try to build groups with a good setup, even if it is not so important while zerging, also in that case there are classes that are more wanted then others, tanks have a hard living too in dark age of castalot if not playing mid for example, so as a player it ´s personal choice to go the way of hard living when playing a class not liked much, or play something that is liked and needed for groups.
I usually play a ranger too on shards, but I wasn ´t sure if Eden is a good setup server for stealthers, so I rolled a druid instead and like to play it, as I normally get instant grp and can also play a class that is fun for me and help other players. Also trying to rezz and heal other players like stealthers not in grp but I know it ´s sometimes hard to do that, as my group is first priority. As I often get thankful sends by stealthers, support seems to be rare for them.
I also must confess, that stealthers often play not grp friendly when in group, they cruise somewhere away from grp, trying to flank or pick up solo enemies outside of heal range, or get baited, then die and get me often into trouble healing/rezzing them up, as a druid that has to run and rezz and can ´t take good care of the grp while doing that, it ´s an annoying and stressfull situation for a supporter and ofc other grp members realize the caused trouble, that sometimes might even lead to worse situations. Ofc ppl see the class and might make a bad judge of a stealther that already has a social slot in group, while a suicidal luri mentalist in the same situation might not be blamed so hard, as he/she has a decent kill ratio and more benefit for the group though. Is it unfair? Yes, but in the end of a day majority of players look at their rps/hour ratio and decide if it was a good, or bad rvr day they spend time for.
I see the reasons and I think it will not change to the better for stealthers in future, so it might be a personal take it or leave it choice and if there will be a season 2, probably many stealther players will not roll a stealther again as it has too less benefit for them.
Also there was no real frontier leveling where stealthers can attack other players. Spots like DF, and merchants and Epic steps got bad as the most players are leveled, temped and have their stuff together now. The deserter spots are kinda useless as you get normally more rps when go with zerg and it ´s also more fun to zerg as killing some npc so these spots are also rarely visited by other players and when it ´s often small or full groups that are not a target for stealthers.
So coming back for the oportunities, with the port and private ship system and new frontier designs there is no or less bottlenecks where stealthers can attack ppl, the only solution is to apply zerg and stealthers beside minstrels have not much to offer for groups for that kind of play, that ´s not an Eden problem but a normal daoc design choice.
That being said ppl can´t be blamed imho when they try to build groups with a good setup, even if it is not so important while zerging, also in that case there are classes that are more wanted then others, tanks have a hard living too in dark age of castalot if not playing mid for example, so as a player it ´s personal choice to go the way of hard living when playing a class not liked much, or play something that is liked and needed for groups.
I usually play a ranger too on shards, but I wasn ´t sure if Eden is a good setup server for stealthers, so I rolled a druid instead and like to play it, as I normally get instant grp and can also play a class that is fun for me and help other players. Also trying to rezz and heal other players like stealthers not in grp but I know it ´s sometimes hard to do that, as my group is first priority. As I often get thankful sends by stealthers, support seems to be rare for them.
I also must confess, that stealthers often play not grp friendly when in group, they cruise somewhere away from grp, trying to flank or pick up solo enemies outside of heal range, or get baited, then die and get me often into trouble healing/rezzing them up, as a druid that has to run and rezz and can ´t take good care of the grp while doing that, it ´s an annoying and stressfull situation for a supporter and ofc other grp members realize the caused trouble, that sometimes might even lead to worse situations. Ofc ppl see the class and might make a bad judge of a stealther that already has a social slot in group, while a suicidal luri mentalist in the same situation might not be blamed so hard, as he/she has a decent kill ratio and more benefit for the group though. Is it unfair? Yes, but in the end of a day majority of players look at their rps/hour ratio and decide if it was a good, or bad rvr day they spend time for.
I see the reasons and I think it will not change to the better for stealthers in future, so it might be a personal take it or leave it choice and if there will be a season 2, probably many stealther players will not roll a stealther again as it has too less benefit for them.
Re: Stealther Hate
DF used to be the stealthers playground but Eden pretty much killed it being open to all and under utilizing it, they should have the kill task/quest in there or double the xp to get leveling groups going, this in turn will generate traffic for stealthers and stealth hunters (they also need to revert it back to tower/keep ownership).
Personally i think it would help the stealthers/solo pop quite a bit ,maybe they will see the error of thier ways next season
Personally i think it would help the stealthers/solo pop quite a bit ,maybe they will see the error of thier ways next season
Re: Stealther Hate
I just love when someone who doesn't even play my class chimes in and attempts to justify the very behavior I called out. 