Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

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Hylor
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

rootsd wrote: Thu Jan 12, 2023 9:45 pm You lost me when you compared bard to healer and concluded in that comparison bard is superior.
This is not much of a reply. We can disagree on the superior class for their roles and still conclude that bard does not need root.

I ambushed a bard/VW duo while the VW was chasing a wizard. Bard gets off mezz, I purge, I am right on him but not able to rear snare, he SOS, then turns and roots me for 1 min+. I just stand there as he heals himself and waits for VW to come back. VW doesn't return before root is over so he just mezzes me again. VW comes back, I almost win the 1v1 before bard heals (as he should) and I lose. Any other healing class would not have SOS to get away and any other class with SOS would not have that amount of CC and/or the heals to save their duo partner.

The class just has too many tools that make them too strong in small man and 8v8. Zerg fights their insta aoe amnesia is a bit much, everyone else has to at least cast theirs hence the call for a longer CD. Biggest issue is the root and a minor issue that would help is the longer CD on insta amnesia.
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Idi
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Single target bard:
Minor Lullaby / Range 2300 / Recast Delay 5s

Area target bard:
Superior Lullaby / Radius 325 / Range 2300 / Recast Delay 10s

Single target sorc:
Inflict Minor Forgetfulness / Cast Time 2s / Range 2300

Area Sorc:
Inflict Oblivion / Cast Time 2s / Radius 325 / Range 2300

Single target Healer:
Wake Senseless / Cast Time 2s / Range 2300

Area Healer:
Wake Oblivious / Cast Time 2s / Radius 325 / Range 2300

Both alb and mid can cast amnesia spells every two seconds, and faster with bonuses, while a bard is limited to once every 5 and 10 seconds respectively. There is zero argument against a bards amnesia.

Counterparts to the bard all have two forms of casted crowd control, so the single target root a bard has balances the class with the rest.

Your argument is pure bias against bards and hibs and has zero actual merit.
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Fin / Valar
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Idi wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:35 am Single target bard:
Minor Lullaby / Range 2300 / Recast Delay 5s

Area target bard:
Superior Lullaby / Radius 325 / Range 2300 / Recast Delay 10s

Single target sorc:
Inflict Minor Forgetfulness / Cast Time 2s / Range 2300

Area Sorc:
Inflict Oblivion / Cast Time 2s / Radius 325 / Range 2300

Single target Healer:
Wake Senseless / Cast Time 2s / Range 2300

Area Healer:
Wake Oblivious / Cast Time 2s / Radius 325 / Range 2300

Both alb and mid can cast amnesia spells every two seconds, and faster with bonuses, while a bard is limited to once every 5 and 10 seconds respectively. There is zero argument against a bards amnesia.

Counterparts to the bard all have two forms of casted crowd control, so the single target root a bard has balances the class with the rest.

Your argument is pure bias against bards and hibs and has zero actual merit.

Oh c'mon seriously you are comparing healers casted amnesia with bard's instant??? Anyone can interrupt an healer, no-one can interrupt a bard (and can cast it on the move). Instants at 2300 range are themself an argument enough... (I did not mention the Sorc cast since it is somewhere in-between, because of quickcast). Bards are healers, interrupters, crowd controllers with speed and SOS. This is a fact, not bias not hate towards hib. They are simply an OP class, the best support in game by far.

Try again, please :D
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Megrim
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Bard got root, because it was compared to other realms just weak in a hibsetup, so why remove it now and why nerf amnesia?
These are just attempts to weaken Hibernia as it doing well at the moment in rvr, there are good playernumbers and good organization and ofc good players. It ´s not because bards or any other classes are op, bards can just fullfill their role as supporter like it is meant to be, healer, minstrel or sorc are still at same or better level imho.
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Fin / Valar wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:06 pm
Oh c'mon seriously you are comparing healers casted amnesia with bard's instant???
No, you are. You focus on the insta aspect of bard amnesia while completely ignoring the fact that both the healer and sorc have overall faster cast times due to the insta reset bards have. This means that each will have an advantage at times over the other realms, depending on the conditions. Both a healer and sorc can spam mez during keep and tower sieges and standoffs more effectively than a bard, while a bard will be more effective on the move.

As for "anyone can interrupt a healer"? No. No they can't. Not at 2300 units, which is the range of amnesia. You didn't mention sorcs because you're biased, and chose to ignore the fact they have access to quick cast, concentration, and MoC, all of which allow them to cast uninterupted, and at greater frequency than a bard.

Your argument has no merit, and is completely contradicted by the spell data we can all see right here on the char planner.
Fin / Valar wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:06 pm Minstrels are stealthers, wall climbers, interrupters, crowd controllering melee classes with speed, high con pets that make them pretty much immune to CC, have ablatives, mez cures, and SOS. This is a fact, not bias not hate towards Albion. They are simply an OP class, the best support in game by far.
Fixed that for you....
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Idi
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Megrim wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:03 pm Bard got root, because....
Somebody on a dev team somewhere finally realized how ridiculous it was that they had only ONE form of crowd control while healers have three, and both skalds and minstrels have access to two via insta mez / snare and insta stun / uninteruptable casted mez.
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Fin / Valar
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Idi wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:14 pm
Fin / Valar wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:06 pm
Oh c'mon seriously you are comparing healers casted amnesia with bard's instant???
No, you are. You focus on the insta aspect of bard amnesia while completely ignoring the fact that both the healer and sorc have overall faster cast times due to the insta reset bards have. This means that each will have an advantage at times over the other realms, depending on the conditions. Both a healer and sorc can spam mez during keep and tower sieges and standoffs more effectively than a bard, while a bard will be more effective on the move.

As for "anyone can interrupt a healer"? No. No they can't. Not at 2300 units, which is the range of amnesia. You didn't mention sorcs because you're biased, and chose to ignore the fact they have access to quick cast, concentration, and MoC, all of which allow them to cast uninterupted, and at greater frequency than a bard.

Your argument has no merit, and is completely contradicted by the spell data we can all see right here on the char planner.
Fin / Valar wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:06 pm Minstrels are stealthers, wall climbers, interrupters, crowd controllering melee classes with speed, high con pets that make them pretty much immune to CC, have ablatives, mez cures, and SOS. This is a fact, not bias not hate towards Albion. They are simply an OP class, the best support in game by far.
Fixed that for you....

The fun fact is that I only play Mid :lol:
You say that healers cannot be interrupted because amnesia has 2300 range. Then you say that healers can spam amnesia in keeps (LOL). The only situation where a healer can spam amnesia is when the enemy party is so bad that are letting him cast at will, and no way in keep they can spam amnesia since, and I repeat myself, anyone can interrupt a healer: grey pets, dots, gtaoe, spells, melees, trebs, arrows, guards..... Have you ever tried to play a healer, especially a pac Healer, in a keep fight? You just stay in a corner and try to spam heals, knowing that not a single CC spell you have will be effective there, apart for the instas (10 minutes, not 5 or 10 seconds lol)
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Fin / Valar
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Idi wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:23 pm
Megrim wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:03 pm Bard got root, because....
Somebody on a dev team somewhere finally realized how ridiculous it was that they had only ONE form of crowd control while healers have three, and both skalds and minstrels have access to two via insta mez / snare and insta stun / uninteruptable casted mez.
Well so we must hope that the same dev team will soon realize that healers have crap-speed and no SOS, and will give them speed5 and SOS like bards?

mmmhhh or is it not the way it works? :lol:
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Idi
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Fin / Valar wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:39 pm
Idi wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:23 pm
Megrim wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:03 pm Bard got root, because....
Well so we must hope that the same dev team will soon realize that healers have crap-speed and no SOS, and will give them speed5 and SOS like bards?

mmmhhh or is it not the way it works? :lol:
That's why skalds exist.
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Fin / Valar
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Re: Balance - Remove Bard's Root & Amnesia Unified CD

Idi wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:55 pm
Fin / Valar wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:39 pm
Idi wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 8:23 pm

Well so we must hope that the same dev team will soon realize that healers have crap-speed and no SOS, and will give them speed5 and SOS like bards?

mmmhhh or is it not the way it works? :lol:
That's why skalds exist.
Yes that's true, so Mids need 2 toons to do the job done by 1 in Hib.... well it explains a lot
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